Monday, December 8, 2008
Session 68: Baptism
Church leaders should be.....BAPTISED! Oh, church leadership was last week. This week we are teaching on baptism. Interesting poll question this week Paul. Please vote each week guys. We believe, as Southern Baptists, in baptism by immersion. This means to be completely "buried" in the water. The writer in this week's lesson brings three points to us. 1- Baptism is as act of obedience. Remember the old song we sing in church? Trust and Obey? This is the proper order in which we should do this. Salvation comes first. Baptism is after salvation. When someone comes to us for counseling at church and says: " I have already been baptized but I am not sure about my salvation", I always encourage them to be baptized again if they trust Christ as Lord and Saviour. The first time they were just wet, now they are baptized in Christ. Think of it like this, I never wore a wedding band when I was not married. The wedding band came after I was married. 2- Baptism is a symbol of what Christ has done for us. He died- as we are also dying to self. He was buried and he arose. Don't forget our verse we use for 180. 2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation; old things have passed away, and look, new things have come. We are telling the whole world that we are putting on the new man and am no longer a slave to sin. 3- Baptism is and act of identification. We should desire to be identified as a Christian. Baptism is not necessary for salvation but it is necessary for identification. Here's a little something to get you started. Should we as a church baptize someone as quickly as possible after they walk the aisle for salvation? Or... should we wait for a period of time to look for fruit before we baptize them? After all, I know of many "converts" that we 1-baptized and they never attended church again or 2-walked the aisle to tell the church that they were saved and we never even saw them again. You must be baptized by immersion to be a voting member at our church. So...what think ye?
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11 comments:
Billy, I think we’ve been down this road before but for the purpose of progressional sanctification, I guess it’s worth another visit. I feel we should definitely baptize believers as soon as practical. The Bible almost always places believing in Christ for salvation and baptism together. Can you find a place where they’re separate? Anybody that’s been around church for a while will have heard the following philosophies at one time or another.
1) Baptism is just an outward expression of an inward transformation, I’m saved, I can be baptized later.
2) You need to “grow in Christ” and then be baptized.
3) You need to be baptized into the Church. That’s when you can vote.
I think the problem with these philosophies is just that. They’re man made ideas, concepts, and theories, not Holy God inspired biblical instruction. Now that I’ve conveyed my feelings about when to baptize, the next question is……
How to baptize? Sprinkle or immerse? Well here we go again. Baptism is just symbolic anyhow……right? Well to say baptism is symbolic is true, but that doesn’t make it insignificant. If baptism were not important we would not have been commanded to do so. The very definition of baptize, means to immerse. Never was sprinkling practiced in the Bible. Sprinkling resulted from someone deciding that it was easier to sprinkle a sick man rather than immerse him. About five hundred years later, another someone thought maybe it would be easier to sprinkle an infant rather than immerse him/her. Yes, baptism of babies…….I’ll let someone else tackle that one. Anyway, let me say this. There is nothing wrong with opinions, concepts, theories, ideas, and even traditions. We just need to make sure they line up with biblical examples. Happy to support my learned thoughts with scripture if requested. As always, thanks for the platform.
What's wrong with infant Baptism?
Baptism is an important part of being a Baptist. DUH! That's why it is a part of our name. Why all of the fuss? Does it REALLY matter? In a word, YES! Baptism is central to who we are as Baptists and it was the act that signified the beginning of His earthly ministry. Many people have questions about baptism like: Why is it so important? What method, sprinkling or immersion, is the proper procedure for baptism? Am I saved if I'm not baptised? Who can baptize me? Does my infant baptism count? These are all valid questions and they all need to be answered...so here we go!
Baptism is important because as I've already mentioned mentioned it signified the beginning of Christ's earthly ministry. Strangely enough, it signifies the beginnig of our earthly ministry as well.
Baptism is an act of obedience that demonstrates to the world that we are different. If baptism weren't important to Christ then why was He baptised?If it weren't important then why did He command Christians to, "...go into all the world and make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit"? Why would Christ command us to baptize if weren't important. Baptism marks the end of living in the flesh (Romans 8:5) and the beginning of living in the Spirit (Romans 6:4).
We see in the book of Acts that the first Christians practised baptism as well. In Acts 2:41 we read, "So those who accepted his message were baptized..." They practiced baptism because they were taught that this was important and necessary. Who taught them this? The Disciples who were taught this by Jesus Himself. If it was something that the Disciples preached and practised as well as Jesus, then maybe it is somethig that we should at least give attention to.
Immersion is the proper technique for baptism because it is the biblical way. Romans 6:4 says, "Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in a new way." Colossians 2:12 says, "Having been buried with Him in baptism, you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead." Both of these verses refer to being "buried" with Christ in baptism. If baptism was not meant to be by immersion, as in being covered over with water, then why would baptism be referred to as being "buried with Christ"? If baptism were meant to be by sprinkling why not say, to be "damp with Christ" or to be "slightly wet with Christ" or even to be "gently but not completely moistened with Christ".
The imagery of baptism by immersion is key to this discussion. When the person is going under the water it symbolizes dying to our old self. When a person comes up out of the water he is, as the pastor of my home church says, "raised to walk in newness of life." This is what Romans 6:4 is talking about. In order to be "buried with Him by baptism..." we first must be "buried" in the water. To be immersed means to be completely surrounded by something. Just as Jesus was completely surrounded by His tomb we must be completely surrounded by the water when we are baptized.
You can in fact be saved and not baptized. Baptism has nothing to do with becoming saved. It is, however, usually one of the first acts of obedience that new Christians participate in. Should there be an age limit placed by the church on a person becoming baptized? I believe there should. A child who is 6 or 7 when they become saved, does not truly understand the significance or the purpose of believer's baptism. They are told by the pastor or their parents that this is the next step and that it is an act of obedience. Usually the child agrees out of obedience to their parents or their pastor not because they feel led to do so by the Holy Spirit. Since a person can be saved and not baptized then why can't this child wait until they are more mature, can better grasp the importance and purpose of baptism, and are led to do so by the Holy Spirit. Now what should be the proper age for someone to be baptized? I would say that there is no definite age because God reveals Himself and His plan to children as well as adults. I would say that there should be a minimum age, such as say 12, but if the pastor deems that a child under the age of 12 understands what believer's baptism is truly about, then he can make an exception if he so desires. I also believe that an older person should demonstrate an understanding of the purpose and significance of baptism before being baptiszed as well. I think that a new Christian should have to attend a new Christians class before being allowed to join the church or before being baptized. This will allow them the oportunity to better understand what we as Southern Baptists belive and why. Remember Jesus said to make disciples and then baptize them. He never said they had to be baptized within 2 or 3 weeks of being saved. Since they are already saved there is no harm in waiting a month or 2 to learn more about their new faith. Now 6 months or more I think is too long but as long as they are saved then their eternity is secured. If they are truly saved and want to be obedient to God then they wil do the right thing within a reasonable amount of time.
Anyone who is a fellow believer can baptize you. In the Great Commission, Matthew 28:18-20, tells all of His disciples to baptize new disciples. That means that you don't have to be baptized by the Bro. Brad, Billy, Stacy, or any other ordained minister. Any fellow believer can baptize you. Now, to be a member of a Southern Baptist church it must be done by immersion and it must be supervised by an established Southern Baptist church. That means if Jerry Mac wants to baptize Garrison in the baptismal pool of our church, as long as Bro. Brad says that church will sanction the baptism, then that baptism is valid and accepted in any other Southern Baptist church. It is a truly memorable experience to see a father baptize their child.
Southern Baptists practice Believer's Baptism. That means that a person must first be a believer before they can be baptized. This was the practice of the early Church, read Acts 2:41 again..."Those who accepted his message were baptized..." So the Bible indicates that baptism is for believers as well. That means that infant baptism does nothing more than get the baby's head wet. It is a beautiful ceremony, one in which both of my sons have been a part of, but it has no salvific power or eternal significance. I allowed both of my sons to "get their heads wet" because my inlaws are Presbyterian and that is their practice. In talking with their pastor we both agreed that infant baptism had nothing to do with the boy's salvation but was more of a parent-child dedication service. I felt that since it was important to my in laws for this to be done, and since it was understood that their was no salvific power in the "baptism" itself, that this was ok. Nevertheless, infant baptism is not practiced or condoned by Southern Baptist churches because it is not biblical. Believer's Baptism is biblical and signifies that a person has asked Jesus Christ to be their personal Lord and Savior. Those are the 2 most important reasons for for Believer's Baptism and against infant baptism.
Baptism is important and is one of only 2 sacraments that we as Southern Baptist practice, the other being the Lord's Supper. Baptism by immersion was so important to the early Baptists that many were killed (usually by being immersed in a river) for their beliefs. Baptism is not slavific but is a sign that Jesus is at work in the heart of the believer. Baptism is one step in our progressional sanctification, because by it we are setting ourselves apart from the world and declaring that we belong to Jesus. Baptism is commanded by Jesus and as His followers we should be obedient to His instruction and be baptized.
In His Love,
Stephen Bene'
Look Stephen, I posted what I did trying to irritate some and draw them into a set up so I could make the same point I always try and make, but in a different way. But when you get on here and write your Doctoral Thesis on Baptism, you cover the point I want to make, thereby not allowing me to make John look at Joyce and exclaim "Paul's going straight to hell".
Well after what Stephen has blogged I have nothing to add.... I'll just print it out and use that Sunday morning. But I agree with John about mankind creating our own rules to what makes us more godly, and not using God's own remarks as to our worship and obedience.
Look Paul, after reading your post this morning, I thought.....Huh wonder wheres he's going now? Either he's just instigating, or he's baiting the rest of the group to persuade their involvement. I then, in my own mind, gave you credit for the latter. Suddenly, my respect for you waxed slightly. I was surprised and delighted, you might risk being ridiculed for the sake of other participants. Thought you were being sensitive for a moment. I judged you prematurely and do offer my apologies.
As for infant baptism, the idea originated as a way to rid our children from "original sin" of Adam and Eve. Since baptism doesn't remove sin, and an infant can't understand Jesus or salvation, there is no point in it.
As for waiting to be baptized until a young person has a better understanding of its purpose and importance......Well, if they can grasp the importance of salvation, I think they can handle baptism.
Seriously Paul, keep up the good work. Your comments encourage me to study more. Thanks.
Paul, I apologize for taking your thunder and for writing my doctoral thesis. (more like a term paper without the footnotes really!)I guess I always have alot to say about this kind of stuff. Once I start I can't stop. Everyone, my sincerest apologies for my wordiness.
My point about an age for baptism is that I think some children do it because mom and dad or the preacher said so and NOT the Holy Spirit.
John and I discussed the other day how we assume that most people think the same way we do until we get here and see some differnet ways of looking at things. I appreciate everyone's opinions and your willingness to share. I have learned alot from all of you and look forward to reading your responses each week. It is always good to get another perspective on something because it either helps to strengthen your current point of view or it makes you reconsider the way you think about something. I think that that is a good thing.
And lastly, Paul, if you were to die tonight and were standing before God and He should ask you why should I let you into My Kingdom...(LOL)
In His Love,
Stephen Bene'
There is something at the top of this page that says, "Your comment has been saved." Hallelujah! I didn't know it was even under conviction! LOL
Stephen Bene'
I sometimes think it was more comfortable thinking everyone had the same views as I do; however, it is vastly more important that Billy ensures none of us are heretical concerning basic doctrine. This is my first year in the youth with you guys, and for whatever reason, it has struck me deeper the importance of sound doctrine at this age. In Adult 1 they are just that, adults. To some degree, if they are saved, they will love the word and find truth on their on, at least that has been my experience.
Either way I love the blog, holds me accountable. I will tell all of you like I told John, I am not sensitive, so let me know if you think I'm off base. Lord knows I'm going to tell you, right Heather!?
P.S. Not that Heather is off base, she just noticed that I sometimes don't mind correcting people.
Tuesday I started to put something like I agree with every thing Wesley said. Here it is Friday and I still fill convicted about taking the easy way out, because I don’t agree on everything.
I believe in baptism because it is an act of obedience and identification. Most importantly, Christ himself was baptized. The question was thrown out do you need to grow in Christ and then be baptized? No were in the Bible does it tell us to grow in Christ first and then get baptized, there are many examples of being saved and baptism followed (one example- Acts 8:38)
The question about infant baptism, I do not believe in infant baptism because its not scripture.
The question on setting a limit placed by the church on a person or more a child becoming baptized, again no were in the Bible did I find a time period even for children. In my opinion and I stress my opinion I feel that the child like faith truly means child like faith. They simple believe with out trying to reason everything, they are humble and sincere. (Matthew 18:1-3) And as John put it, if they can grasp the importance of salvation, I think they can handle baptism.
The point about some child do it (it -I think this refers to baptism) because mom or dad or the preacher said so and not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit leads us to become saved; baptism is an act of obedience, a symbol of what Christ has done for us, and an act of identification. If a person is truly saved, (and I for one am not judging anyone’s salvation, that’s Gods job.) than how exciting to share with everyone your decision to follow Christ in baptism.
Anyone who is a fellow believer can baptize you, o.k. I grew up thinking that the preacher baptized everyone and really have never just thought about it or study it in the Bible. Thanks Stephen for opening my eyes to the Word of God on this matter.
I can not thank Billy or fellow teachers in Christ enough for this blog, never have I been so inspired or challenge in my Christian beliefs of Christ as I do when I read these blogs.
You make me a better teacher and I count it a joy and blessing to work with you all.
Love in Christ,
Heather
P.S. Paul I truly did smile when I read your blog and yes I took your bait and blogged.
Thanks!
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